-- Start: Sunday, June 5, 1994 3:12:37 pm DUtime (EDT)

Traven turns Recorder on.
___________
| |
Traven holds up a BIG sign: | recording |
|___________|
PeterMR [to TinaP]:
marcus has done lots of clever things to this room. we are now being recorded
TinaP says:
great!
can I get a copy?
PeterMR says:
the tape can be sent to marcus and then it can be turned into HTML for WWW
Traven [to TinaP]:
Sure. I'll drop the tape afterwards.
PeterMR [to Traven]:
- how does it get copied for Tina
Traven says:
She can mail it to herself. Hope this is ok?
PeterMR thinks this is running very slowly somewhere - perhaps the network
TinaP says:
ok
DanielP says:
Is Marcus coming?
Traven [to DanielP]:
later.
PeterMR [to TinaP]:
- marcus will be late so we shall start. I suspect 3-4 consults will be an avergae attendance
TinaP nods.
Traven [to PeterMR]:
I'd like to talk baout students' feedback.
(Traven thinks: about, even )
TinaP says:
what type of feedback are you looking for?
PeterMR thinks we need to talk about : 1, feedbcak and forms; 2. content 3; project feedback
DanielP says:
Is there an agenda of some sort for today meeting
PeterMR [to DanielP]:
I was sort of creating one for others to comment on!
Traven [to TinaP]:
First, general feedback. What should we do to improve this course? for example ...
(DanielP thinks: the lag cut me short, look ok to me )
PeterMR [to TinaP]:
I think we all have our own views of the course so we have to exchange experience here. necessary, but not v efficient
TinaP says:
I've heard that it's common practice to jump ahead on chapters in the text?
DanielP says:
I would like to have Peter giving us a short summary of the students respondse
PeterMR thinks the course is good. need to make sure whaere students are.
PeterMR says:
OK - student response. ONLY up to Friday, since I think they might mail me at work
so rather preliminary. So far of 15 I have seen 4, and 2 others who didn't need to mail
so rather diapppointing. There *might* be 2-3 more, but I suspect not
TinaP says:
what type of response?
DanielP [to PeterMR]:
What do you mean by 2 others who didn't need to mail?
PeterMR says:
One said that he did 2-3 hours a week, was quite happy, but wouldn't be able to contribute
`danielp their names weren'y J-L :-)
DanielP nods
PeterMR says:
another was a bit the same, but *would* be prepared to help a bit if required
a third (latypov) I think you know. was very enthusiatic
I haven't collated the replies. what I had intended to do was cut the student's names out
and paste them all together and then circulate. But it hasn't been worth it
DanielP says:
there is one missing
PeterMR says:
That was before we met Tina :-)
I probably can't count :-)
so the result is somewhat disappointijng. maybe they are bored with surveys...
DanielP says:
So it means that we "carry" roughly 1/4 of the class
PeterMR says:
How may students do either of you get coming to the MOO?
TinaP says:
haven't you sent quite a few surveys out?
Traven says:
Less than 4 students in rush hours ...
DanielP says:
One to three on ave
BillH says:
I get none or one student coming to the MOO when I have office hours.
PeterMR says:
tina we sent 1 in first week and 1 in second. very good rate of return. I don't have them on this machine
Traven says:
Maybe that's because their really are no problems yet.
PeterMR says:
when I did Tarven's MOO there weren't any
Traven says:
their = there
TinaP says:
there's always room for improvement
PeterMR says:
But I have had a *long* talk with Laura
Traven [to PeterMR]:
Btw. Thanks for that :-)
PeterMR says:
That sort of talk makes MOOing very worth while. We spent a long time on her CGI stuff
TinaP says:
what type of comments did Laura make?
DanielP [to PeterMR]:
What is Laura's impression (must be good)?
PeterMR says:
She has done a lot. Really what she needs I suspect is a small discussion group. She's very dadvanced
Have you looked at her classes? She is using templates, inheritance etc. And the problem is a very difficult one
DanielP says:
Before discussing issues related to project, we should clear up the feedbacks issue
PeterMR
>> Network buffer overflow: 33 lines of output to you have been lost <<
PeterMR [to marcus.]:
we had a rough agenda. feedback on students, feedback on projects :-)
TinaP [to Marcus]:
send it to me please, not on web yet
PeterMR agrees with danielp
Traven believes that Marcus knows all links by heart.
Marcus thinks Dan may be right. You can check fingering them individually (as I did) - very few have never been logged.
Marcus ok, Tina.
PeterMR has met marcus. marcus is actually 4 parallel bots
Marcus [to Traven]:
that is correct :)
Marcus laffs.
Marcus says:
Btw, the stuff of chapter 5 which Traven sent me was the *best* i have ever got from a consultant :)
I untar'd it and it just was fitting all in its place..zero work for me!
TinaP pats Traven on the back.
PeterMR did v little to his chapter...
Marcus bows traven.
Traven [to Marcus]:
Thanks.
PeterMR but he did compile all the progs
Traven gets a red face ...
Marcus says:
I dont want to interrupt an ongoing discussion - but has everyone received the mail about Sandra Burke's paper?
Marcus [to PeterMR]:
i forgot about your work covering *all* the chapters! sorry!
BillH [to Marcus]:
Yes, I did.
TinaP says:
yes I'm looking forward to see it
DanielP says:
There was one feedback in which the student said he had scrupules participating with ppl he doesn't know, I guess that other students are shy to send mail to the list to ask "stupid" questions since it is going to be made public
Marcus [to TinaP]:
actually, this group doing the course is about the best team I have ever seen at work...(not only at a distance).
PeterMR says:
marcus I have broken my GUI :-)
PeterMR has disconnected.
Traven agrees with DanielP
TinaP pats you, class_help, Coke machine, US-clock, Consultant's List, Bulletin Board, Schedule, Projects Board, BillH, WWW94 Cup, Traven, DanielP, PeterMR, and Marcus on back.
Marcus [to DanielP]:
I tried to repeat "ASK DUMB QUESTIONS" in all the announcmetns, but that may not have helped.
TinaP says:
I'm doing a lot of patting!
BillH [to DanielP]:
The same lack of active participation happens in a live classroom. Only a few actively participate.
Marcus [to BillH]:
I thought the paper may really help us - the statistics and the focus of it.
Traven says:
We should take the 'fear' off of the students. I've no idea how, though. Maybe Tina could help here.
PeterMR has connected.
Marcus [to TinaP]:
yeah..avoid automatic verbs, spoof etc... MOOetiquette :) :)
Marcus nods Traven emphatically.
TinaP nods.
BillH [to Marcus]:
I read about half of the paper before this meeting. It looks good.
DanielP [to Marcus]:
I had a quick look at it, and found it interesting to see our attempt studied like this "under the microscope". Hope to have time to look at it in more details
PeterMR [to Marcus]:
I mended my GUI. now it breaks with ONE page :-)
Marcus [to BillH]:
the conclusions are somewhat narrow-minded though. I've sent in some sharp comments :)
___________________
| |
Marcus holds up a BIG sign: | Dont Page PeterMR |
|___________________|
Marcus [to PeterMR]:
do '@nopage all' to avoid being paged.
Marcus [to TinaP]:
can you (or peter?) tell us more about what is on the pile to be done?
DanielP [to BillH]:
This is turning out to be just too much like rl to my taste!
PeterMR thanks marcus. Traditional software 'enhancement'
TinaP says:
Peter, why don't you start by telling everyone what we are planning?
PeterMR says:
did you all see my mail about Tina?
on - email
Marcus listens.
Marcus nods
Traven [to PeterMR]:
Yes.
PeterMR says:
I'll go over it again, OK
Briefly
We need some additional help other than teaching the content of the course. 'Admin'.
Tina has very kindly offered to help. She might even enjoy it!
TinaP smiles.
PeterMR says:
Last sundat all consults were a bit worried abou lack of feedback from 75% of class.
therefore PMR asked Jeanne for admin help. To find out who/how many students di what
many people have confirmed this is important in *any* calss
:means class
So we need to find out the less vocal students. Consults don't have time to read 80 emails
Marcus has removed a notice from Bulletin Board.
PeterMR says:
so we need (a) automatic survey for *facts* (b) personal 'interviews' for 'feelings'
automatic survey will be done by forms. Laura has built a prog. I'v egot it, compiled, but not yet run it
don't have time this week.
not *sure* whether she has hardcoded the Q - there are a max of 10
so we can put this on web, mail the students and ask them to press the buttons
Marcus *does* want this forms pgm for future course registration....
PeterMR says:
the results have to be collated. For numeric that could be a prog/.script, but for text has to be summarised
DanielP [to Marcus]:
It will be useful for any GNA courses
Marcus says:
About your mail: 'analysing numeric results' - Sandra Burke has done some work in that direction already - no need maybe to go through the old surveys anymore - I trust that she did it ok. Maybe she wants to followup and help Tina?"One suggestion, regarding your mail...
PeterMR says:
not sure how generic prog is. Laura *wants* to make it really generic.
(Marcus thinks: cut 'one suggestion....' part of this sentence )
PeterMR is listening
PeterMR continues
Marcus listens again.
PeterMR says:
for weekly survey would have to have (a) robust easy prog (b) someone to hack in the scripts
DanielP [to PeterMR]:
Would you like to have weekly surveys?
PeterMR says:
I am not sure whether needs recompiling. (PMR has awk/sed script - under bash. Nightmare to hack)
weekly surveys are no problem *if* they are auotmatic.
TinaP says:
can I interrupt?
PeterMR says:
I enjoy thw www-usage of URL's. *that* could be a useful feedback as well.
PeterMR [to TinaP]:
of course
Marcus says:
I think if surveys are 'just there' to be used, that is ok. not for regular distribution via Email though.
PeterMR points out that www can monitor which pages are being accessed. standard software
Traven says:
However, you still have to motivate the students ... Tina, that's your work :)
TinaP says:
I've done a lot of research type work. Weekly surveys are too much! People will learn to ignore them very quickly
DanielP [to PeterMR]:
There are no problem for us if they are automatic, but will the students readily accept to fill them every weeK?
Marcus nods~
PeterMR [to tinap.]:
thanx!!
Marcus [to DanielP]:
and will the consultants take them into account...?
Marcus has found it rather hard to keep the overview at this end.
TinaP says:
course evaluation needs to be done on a regularly scheduled basis.
does this course have a time limit or is it ongoing?
PeterMR [to TinaP]:
we are all amatuers! especially when it's virtual
(DanielP thinks: Minimal overhead for the students, my guess at the key to our success )
Marcus [to TinaP]:
if we do this seriously, we should work towards a common scheme to be integrated in a future www/moo course package.
TinaP says:
right!
Marcus hms...
PeterMR [to TinaP]:
marcus set end of july, but it's slipping?
TinaP says:
let me ask some questions and then perhaps we will have somewhere to start
PeterMR listens for Tina's Q
TinaP says:
OK?
first is there a time limit on the course or is it ongoing?
PeterMR [to TinaP]:
marcus set end of july. But some students may continue voluntarily
TinaP says:
I mean like a term... one month, two months?
PeterMR thinks most people away in august
Marcus [to TinaP]:
July is expected - at least then the course wont continue with more 'units' corresponding to chapters
(DanielP thinks: the lang is bad )
Marcus nods PeterMR. Tina, we have 11 chapters, but we're unsure about whether to cover the full tutorial which is on the web yet
Marcus [to TinaP]:
roughly we proceed with 1 chapter per 1 1/2 weeks, and we're about to start chapter 4 & 5 next week.
PeterMR thinks that some of chap 11-12 could be tough for newbies
TinaP says:
do people work at their own pace by going ahead?
PeterMR [to tinap.]:
Yes, but we try to continue at same pace. The *projects* have also pushed some people ahead
TinaP says:
so I get a picture of a class of people at different levels?
Marcus [to TinaP]:
yes, e.g. through exercises which are sent to be included in the course web. voluntarily.
PeterMR [to TinaP]:
chaps 1-2 were very simple for anyone who had programmed before, but some people had to get their computers to work
Marcus says:
yes, different levels, and proceeding more and more asynchronously as time goes by.
TinaP says:
when consults are available is it by appointment or first come first serve?
Marcus nods. Not to forget the MOO experience.
Marcus doesnt undrstand the question.
Traven [to TinaP]:
FCFS
PeterMR [to TinaP]:
very much different levels. some are 18 years and first comp course (almost) some are professional programmers
all come all served. Not one-to-one
(BillH thinks: agrees with PeterMR )
TinaP says:
what sets the topic? What you are up to at that point?
PeterMR [to TinaP]:
marcus had planned for 10 in a class, but the max is about 4
Marcus [to PeterMR]:
the overall ratio is even better than 10/1 at present (75 registered, 5 dropped out, 10 consultants, not all on the MOO)
PeterMR [to TinaP]:
in first 2 weeks it was making friends, reassurance, and getting compilers to work
TinaP says:
how many did you lose approximately after the first two weeks?
PeterMR [to TinaP]:
now I think it is 1-2 regulars. also those interested in projects
we don't know how many we lost cos they don't communicate. I don't think we have lost very many
Sandra_Burke arrives from nowhere.
PeterMR [to TinaP]:
also some may have read the whole book and decided they have learnt it!
TinaP says:
Hi Sandra
PeterMR waves sandra.
Traven [to Sandra_Burke]:
Hi.
Sandra_Burke says:
hi
BillH [to Sandra_Burke]:
Hi
TinaP says:
ok What type of response do you get with just a survey on the web? not email?
PeterMR says:
for example, not much we can teach Laura tecnically - more a question of project design and style
PeterMR [to tinap.]:
we haven't done any web surveys
(BillH thinks: We haven't done any surveys on the web. Just email surveys )
TinaP says:
ok and we've learned that the response is low, right?
PeterMR [to Sandra_Burke]:
I have been told about your analysis. did you enjoy doing it?
(BillH thinks: The students and consultants didn't like the volume on their mail readers. )
TinaP says:
what about a more personal touch. One email from me?
Sandra_Burke [to PeterMR]:
yes - but we need to analyze the data indepth - due to class deadlines we kind a put something together quickly
PeterMR thinks they would be happy to e-mail tina
PeterMR [to Sandra_Burke]:
- we have a very wide spectrum of backgrounds in the stgudents
TinaP says:
can the responses be sent to be compiled instead of back to me?
and then results and text to me?
PeterMR [to tina.]:
Not automatically.
Sandra_Burke [to TinaP]:
are you referring to the last survey?
PeterMR [to TinaP]:
what you want is like this:
TinaP [to Sandra_Burke]:
no a future survey
PeterMR says:
Q 1 how many hours /week ... gets automatically histogram, etc
Q how do you feel about the MOO (text) gets concatenated to Tina
Sandra_Burke thinks that would make it about the 4th survey!
PeterMR says:
Needs a script writing. *Is* possible. but someone has to be on same server to do it
Traven [to Sandra_Burke]:
We love them ...
Traven grins
TinaP says:
ok but I want to work with Laura and personalize it a bit
Sandra_Burke [to Traven]:
the poor students
PeterMR finds it very difficult to 'teach' and prepare material without feedback. Projects have good feedback
Traven [to Sandra_Burke]:
We hope they understand what we intend.
PeterMR [to sandra.]:
C++ is a LOT of work. this is a smallish part :):)
TinaP says:
perhaps instead of a survey..
PeterMR says:
Sandra and Tina. have you read tanscript of Jim Sewell's list for String Project??
That is example of very good collaboration and feedback
If all students were doing projects like that, no worries
TinaP says:
I could write up a more personal email and they could email be back with response
no where can I find it?
Sandra_Burke thinks to petermr no but sounds like project feedback which is a good form of feedback
PeterMR means when listserv not bust :-)
PeterMR says:
very good form of feedback. I think the consults thought that all students wouold want to
do projects and this would solev feedback problem
some started very enthusiatically, and they are going well. Some (e.g. Laura) had advanced projects so few takers
(DanielP thinks: We were mislead! )
TinaP says:
what does everyone think of a more personal email from me rather than a survey?
PeterMR [to DanielP]:
- not really. I think IRL we would have got more
PeterMR [to TinaP]:
I think it a good idea. If you tackle them very gently and don't mind missing a few
(BillH thinks: I think TinaP's idea of a more personal email is good )
Traven [to TinaP]:
I hope it's worth the effort.
TinaP says:
good I'll write up one and can one of you send to all?
Sandra_Burke [to PeterMR]:
in our analysis we had thought the class would do well with a greater project focus from the beginning and naturally could build in feedback through project status reports - also may be able to have a show and tell session with all subjects on moo to show status of project to date - a motivator also - want to be good as other peers in other projects etc
PeterMR thinks there are about 6-8 students on String project mailing quite heavily
TinaP [to Sandra_Burke]:
learning contracts are very useful when working with projects
BillH [to TinaP]:
Can you get your own listserv setup just like for the project listservs?
PeterMR agrees with sandra that that is how He would like to teach
PeterMR [to sandra.]:
I am not sure that we can *force* students to come to MOO. some don't like it, and others havn't the time to learn
TinaP [to BillH]:
I'm low on access and quite illiterate computer wise, need assistance
DanielP [to Sandra_Burke]:
This is how we thought this course would evolve
BillH agress with sandra also on a show and tell session.
Sandra_Burke has to go and finish another pro
PeterMR [to Sandra_Burke]:
also some have only alloacted small amount of their time for learning C++
Sandra_Burke says:
excuse garble
Marcus nods
Marcus lagged for 15 minutes...
BillH [to TinaP]:
I'm not sure how it is done myself. But, I think the mechanism is there to set up a listserv for a class project quickly (a day?). You could set up a "survey" project with its own listserv.
TinaP [to BillH]:
I wouldn't even know the first step on how to do
Marcus nods BillH. I think Diego has full control now and can do lists *fast*
PeterMR [to Sandra_Burke]:
everyone is doing everything voluntarily so there can'
everyone is doing everything voluntarily so there can't be any 'contract's
BillH [to Marcus]:
The only problem may be that the students would have to signon to this new "project"
Sandra_Burke thinks that from onset of class say in class one will be working on a project - incidental learning would be C++ and OOP and other skills - you guys make resources available to achieve that i.e. textbooks on line, mediums such as email, listserve moo and they choose how to achieve goal of proje
Sandra_Burke says:
ject
Marcus [to BillH]:
Diego can do as in the beginning-subscribe ALL initially. who isnt interested will unsubscribe
TinaP says:
sounds like the makings of a learning contract to me!
this personal feedback email is a one shot deal at this point
PeterMR [to Sandra_Burke]:
I agree with that. That's how I teach IRL.
Marcus [to TinaP]:
What is a learning contract?
BillH likes the idea Sandra_Burke is suggesting
Marcus apologizes for his ignorance.
DanielP [to Sandra_Burke]:
the problem with this approach is that the students volunteer to learn C++ not necessarly to participate in a collaborative project experiment
TinaP [to Marcus]:
it's an adult learning technique, interested?
PeterMR [to Sandra_Burke]:
the projects that are working here are *first class*
Sandra_Burke has got to go - will keep in touch - another project due thursday - got to go and do some compression - yes tinap a learning contract - we call it a goal based scenario - if anyone needs a paper on this approach - then I can send them one via regular mail - we have some reports on it
TinaP [to Sandra_Burke]:
would be interested in seeing your reports
PeterMR [to TinaP]:
please tell
Traven [to Sandra_Burke]:
I'm interested in such a paper. (mueller@zib-berlin.de)
Sandra_Burke says:
send me an email to
Marcus [to TinaP]:
yes, I am interested.
Marcus says:
btw, for the consultants:
urge students who have ONLY class player accounts, to use '@registerme'
PeterMR thought that GNA had suggested that students 'pay in kind' - is that part of it?
Marcus [to PeterMR]:
this was a GNA intention very much at the start - the present form of affiliating with RL institutions may not allow that. only for a subset, or prototype projects.
Sandra_Burke says:
send me email to sburke@medici.ils.nwu.edu with where to send it
TinaP says:
the first session a written aggreement is made between the consult and the student as to how much will be covered and what type of project the student will do to demonstrate whether material has been covered
Marcus says:
Like a *first* c++ course. Not even necessarily its successor. If we put so much time an [wo]manpower in it...
Marcus [to TinaP]:
Fees for future courses may go via such contracts directly from the student to the consultant.
Sandra_Burke says:
see you all - just me a note if you want the GBS - goal based scenario stuff - bye
BillH [to Sandra_Burke]:
Bye
Sandra_Burke waves bye to all - good luck
PeterMR waves sandra
Sandra_Burke has disconnected.
Marcus [to PeterMR]:
..since GNA hopes to reduce the bureaucratic waterhead which besets many courses IRL.
Marcus waves!
(Marcus thinks: we wont need luck, we need minds )
Marcus smiles
PeterMR warns against underestimating ewffort for DE
TinaP says:
learning contracts have nothing to do with fees, have to do with the type of learning
DanielP smiles
Marcus [to TinaP]:
oh - ok.
TinaP says:
allows people to work at their own pace
Marcus [to TinaP]:
so we have had a silent agreement rather than a contract? what is this model used for?
PeterMR thinks that there *does8 need to be a mmitment from students in futire - but can't blame thse ones
Marcus [to PeterMR]:
certainly not!
PeterMR commitment
TinaP says:
a learning committment inforces a form of committment to the course
a learning contract I mean
PeterMR agress 100% with Tina
Marcus says:
I think crucial for internet courses of the next generation (!) will be what we're exercising here: how the students can become very active and responsible for the whole course.
Marcus points at the 'contributions' page on the Web.
TinaP says:
silent contracts can be broken easily
PeterMR reiterates that the good students on this course are FANTASTIC
Traven says:
Always lead to the motivation problem. IMHO.
TinaP says:
all students need to know what is expected
PeterMR agrees - and all consults need to have idea of what is expected
Marcus agrees with Tina. I have never been under such a 'contract' as far as I can remember, though....
TinaP says:
works well for students with little time and lots of time to work
PeterMR thinks we have all built little contracts during this course. but not explicitly
Assistants of the local psychology institute arrive to cart Sandra_Burke off to their dream-research labs.
Marcus sighs Germany's lousy university education.
TinaP says:
I could email Marcus a sample contract and perhaps he can share with all
PeterMR feels he is expected to be on MOO every TUesday. (but can't do it this week)
PeterMR also felt he had to do everything marcus suggested at beginning
Marcus [to PeterMR]:
i will have the same problem - traven, could *you* take over the Friday session?
Marcus [to TinaP]:
yes, please do, I will want to look at it for sure.
Traven [to Marcus]:
I think so. What time is it (in German local, please :)
Marcus says:
Has there been agreement how to inform the students about this feedback strategy?
DanielP says:
But How can we "enforced" these contracts? There is no way to do this ?
BillH [to TinaP]:
What happens if one party breaks the contract?
Marcus [to Traven]:
Friday morning 08:00-10:00 :)
TinaP says:
Marcus what is your email address?
PeterMR thinks that in future courses there might be a reassessment after a few weeks and a revised student (and consults list). e.g. some students -> consults :-)
Marcus [to TinaP]:
marcus@x4u.desy.de
Traven [to Marcus]:
Oops - Ok ;)
Marcus [to PeterMR]:
..even graded/corrected exercises maybe.
TinaP says:
I could give you folks a short workshop on the use of learning contracts. Interested?
Marcus is an early morning bird.
Marcus says:
YES!
PeterMR is very keen on simple communal effort (e.g. glossaries, markup, etc)
Traven [to TinaP]:
yes
PeterMR [to tinap.]:
would this work with the present type of stduent?
TinaP says:
ok I'll email the contract to Marcus who will share it with all, then I'll let Marcus know when I can do workshop, in the next few weeks
PeterMR likes the idea. But cuts another hour off time allowed for sleep :-)
TinaP says:
now back to business, who can I email my personal feedback letter to?
Traven drops TravenTape.
Marcus [to TinaP]:
ok, but dont expect much action from me this week: i wont be on the net wednesday - monday.
DanielP says:
Looks good to me
Marcus hands PeterMR a list 'recipes for the sleepless'
DanielP laffs
Marcus appeals to the CONSULTANTS to provide some glossary entries....for benedetto.
PeterMR thinks most of problems in course have been because not clear agreements (both inside and outside MOO)
TinaP agrees with PeterMR.
Traven agrees with PeterMR.
PeterMR is feeling VERY happy that Tina is here. Tina KNOWS about things
TinaP blushes.
Marcus [to PeterMR]:
well, we ought to admit that we had actually a very short preparation time....though i dont think we lied about the course limits.
Marcus lifts TinaP on the Teacher's Desk
TinaP bows.
TinaP says:
now who will distribute the personal email?
DanielP [to PeterMR]:
but we cannot agree on something that we don't know about
Marcus says:
well, in principle: why not sending it to the consultant's list?
PeterMR realised when he wrote that to say that course has gone very well and preparation has been very good
Marcus [to TinaP]:
you're on it -> gna-c++-consultants@tsun.desy.de
DanielP [to PeterMR]:
We didn't know what this course will turn out to be like
PeterMR [to tina.]:
I think it should come from you. You don't have to customise it with their names.
TinaP says:
will this address distribute email to all 80 students?
PeterMR [to TinaP]:
you don't have to make it look like customised mail
Marcus [to TinaP]:
no. this is only 10 consultants + you
PeterMR [to DanielP]:
I was hopeful and this has surpassed my expectations
TinaP says:
need to distribute..How?
Marcus [to TinaP]:
put your Email address in your finger information.
PeterMR [to DanielP]:
the standard of material has been very high
PeterMR [to if]:
I was learning C++ I would have learnt a lot
TinaP says:
ok
DanielP [to PeterMR]:
But the students participation low :-(
TinaP says:
more personal may increase participation
PeterMR [to daniel.]:
It was an experiment. No one expected anything. it could easily have been a fiasco
BillH [to Marcus]:
Can't TinaP uses the discussion list to email all 80 students?
Marcus [to TinaP]:
students: use the general discussion list first. send Email to Diego for a survey-list if you want that. it'll be announced on the general.
Marcus nods PeterMR.
PeterMR [to daniel.]:
we have got material for next time (whatever that is); very useful experience; possibly some
TinaP says:
I think all of you have been doing a great job. Now it's time to move on
DanielP [to PeterMR]:
I would not have let this happen!!!
DanielP smiles
PeterMR [to TinaP]:
'class' is technical C++ term!
TinaP says:
what is Diego's address?
Marcus feels sometimes it's time to get some sleep :)
PeterMR [to DanielP]:
- let *what* happen?
Traven [to Marcus]:
You bet!
Marcus [to PeterMR]:
Daniel is thinking aobut the end of his sabbatical :)
PeterMR [to DanielP]:
I like going into the unknown.
Marcus [to TinaP]:
diego@ds5000.dgsca.unam.mx
DanielP [to PeterMR]:
a fiasco
Marcus ponders the unknown. PMR the net-surfing crystallographer..
Marcus siles
PeterMR thinks we have all worked about 10x more than we intended. But I wouldn't have missed it
Marcus will have to tell his boss .
Marcus sighs
PeterMR [to DanielP]:
AH! I have scrolled back. now it makes sense!
TinaP says:
ok Does everyone agree then? I'll send out the personal email and then report back on results
Marcus [to PeterMR]:
did you mention the Guardian already?
Traven [to TinaP]:
You've my agreement :)
PeterMR [to Marcus]:
- boss getting happier/sadder about this?
Marcus nods. Ok. You still want the list of all student's mail addresses? or use the general list?
TinaP [to Marcus]:
what is the official title of this course?
_____________________________________
| |
| the GUardian newspaper reported WWW |
PeterMR holds up a BIG sign: | awards last Thursday |
|_____________________________________|
TinaP says:
I need both, for those that don't answer
Marcus [to PeterMR]:
every year since '90 I spend a full month with him on the net/emacs/web - after 6 months he has forgotten all. he's a genius unfortunately...
PeterMR [to Marcus]:
- he is a lattice theoretician?
Marcus [to TinaP]:
ok, will be sent. the discussion list is active only next week - just broke down.
Marcus [to PeterMR]:
also. A rather famous man with quite some instinct for the unknown too, but I surpass his expectations :) :)
Marcus smiles
TinaP [to Marcus]:
thanks, and what is the official title of the course?
PeterMR has to get back and decide who gets new crystallographic apparatus in UK :-)
Marcus [to TinaP]:
Introduction to Object-Oriented Programming Using C++
Marcus gasps
PeterMR is deciding the fate of people's scientific careers (e.g. whether they get grants)
Marcus [to TinaP]:
isnt MikeP your husband?
Marcus laffs and adds to PMR's pile.
TinaP says:
yes
he's the one who got me so interested in this new learning environment
(DanielP thinks: I wouldn't want to be in PeterMR shoes )
Marcus [to TinaP]:
oh, i forgot: there is an alias also for ALL students: gna-c++-students@tsun.desy.de which ALWAYS works.
he is in the course - and ON the Web!
mail address list sent.
TinaP says:
right! that's my hubby!
Marcus [to TinaP]:
and he's also working on HTML for chapter 11....
PeterMR was trying to remember where mikeP was . But he has an office...
TinaP [to Marcus]:
thanks!
Marcus [to TinaP]:
i recommend you really have a look at the pages.
TinaP says:
Duke University
Marcus [to TinaP]:
...this *is* the course backbone, by all means.
TinaP [to Marcus]:
Mike is taking me tomorrow to do this
Marcus laffs 'hubby'.
Marcus says:
oh - ok.
PeterMR [to tinap.]:
have you felt tonite was worthwhile (not nite with you). be honest...
BillH [to TinaP]:
Be sure that the students respond back to you, and not back to the discussion list. Otherwise, the replies will go to all the students and the consultants.
PeterMR [to tinap.]:
you'll like the WWW side of the course...
TinaP says:
You've all got me so charged up! I think together we can set an example for other courses on WWW
PeterMR thanks billH
Marcus [to TinaP]:
To be sure - Award '95 :) :)
TinaP agrees.
Marcus [to TinaP]:
I will introduce you to those working groups working on WWW courseware - starting with the conference.
DanielP nods !!!
Marcus smiles. With a 'list of 400 authors' that time!
TinaP looks impressed.
PeterMR is going to dematerialise. will think about his demo on June 17. perhaps we can get some students there. ca 1400 GMT I expect
Marcus [to TinaP]:
well, it's a dream...but I like that this medium can heal all of us from being drugged about self-importance.
Marcus says:
...a common phenomenon among specialists in my field anyway :)
Marcus [to PeterMR]:
i think the room is doing fine now, isnt it?
Marcus thinks PMR should fix his GUI though....
TinaP says:
let's focus on we importance!
PeterMR waves bye to tina - there will be lots of futre in it for her somewhere...
Traven says:
Sorry, but it's late for me ... have to go home and in bed.
PeterMR waves all
TinaP waves.
PeterMR has disconnected.
TinaP says:
I'll be in touch sooner than you think!
Marcus waves - I'll mail you about the train.
DanielP waves PeterMR
Traven says:
Should I turn the recorder off?
Marcus says:
can recorder be turned off?
TinaP has disconnected.
BillH says:
It's travenTape in the recorder?
Traven [to BillH]:
yes.
DanielP says:
We are recording on Traven's tape and he has to go
BillH says:
We finished the meeting? We resolved that TinaP will get student feedback.
Marcus nods. gotta go too

-- End: Sunday, June 5, 1994 5:05:04 pm DUtime (EDT)